Kathleen Terjesen, Head, Global Business Services, Bose

Atul:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of sourcing.guru. I’m delighted today to welcome Kathleen Terjesen, who is the head of GBS for Bose. Kathleen, welcome.
Kathleen:
Thank you. Good to be here.
Atul:
So Kathleen, you’ve had quite a career in GBS. I think the audience would love to know kind of your career journey. When did you start and how did you end up or pick GBS?
Kathleen:
I would say probably GBS picked me then more than I picked GBS, but I’ll give you a little bit of the history. So my academic background is in finance and accounting and my original thought was, “Okay, I’ll become a CPA and I’ll go through that track.” When I graduated with my master’s in accounting, there was a program at AT&T at that time where you could actually work under ACPA so that you could be certified. But once I got into the business world, it became very clear to me that a narrow focus in accounting didn’t necessarily meet my best interests.
Kathleen:
So I spent probably the first eight years of my career in every finance role you can think of, right? So from doing consolidated planning, to doing business case reviews, to managing operations within finance, to being a controller for the consumer organization and through those events or experiences, I should say, I had the opportunity to be the financial lead on. At that time one of the biggest outsourcing events that we had done at AT&T, and this is back in the mid to late ’90s, and we outsourced about 2,500 of our technical IT professionals. And I was the finance lead on that engagement, which got me very close to working with the procurement organization.
Kathleen:
And so we went through that program or project for about a year, ended up outsourcing, working through financial SLAs, et cetera, et cetera, and got a tap on the shoulder from the chief procurement officer at that time saying, “How about you come on over to procurement? Because we’ve got lots of contract legal types of folks who know how to work with terms and conditions, but we really need to beef up our financial advocacy, if you would, experience within the procurement organization.” So, I moved to procurement and I’ve had some level of a touch point, if you would, in procurement since that time.
Kathleen:
So I did everything from managing procurement operations, which includes AP contracting processes, payroll, et cetera, et cetera, to actually managing the direct sourcing organization at AT&T. And then from there, I took a role in pharma and it was very much in that source to pay. So that was really a lead from being a procurement professional, to really looking at end to end source to pay and leading through an ERP implementation that included source to pay account to report, or to cash up all of those, and really being the process design lead, working with the technical team, but also then managing the operations. And through that experience was my first touch point, I’ll say into GBS because what ended up happening was as we were working each of these work streams, as part of the ERP implementation, it by default became the global business services organization that had to catch, if you would, or maintain, once the ERP went live all of the transactional pieces across the organization that went through that.
Kathleen:
So, that was really the formation of GBS through the ERP implementation. And then once we realized that, yes, you need a global business services team that has controls and processes and across various locations, we then at that point had a, I’ll call it robust, maybe a maturity level too, if you would, meaning a multifunctional global shared services organization, but really it was concentrated to those core processes. From there, I was lucky enough then to bring additional services into GBS. So I was leading what we called at that time enterprise shared services, which was things like our global creative team, events and meeting management, contingent labor. So all of those things that are kind of peripheral, if you would, to shared services, but not part of, I’ll call it core accounting, HR, et cetera processes. And then from there, I had my first experience with another company within manufacturing to be able to stand up Greenfield Shared Services environment.
Kathleen:
And then finally I took the leap to Bose, which was my second Greenfield experience, but really in a way, and I’ll be happy to share with you later where we’ve taken it from being, I’ll say really a traditional shared services to really being a strategy enablement service-based organization for the enterprise. So, that’s a little bit kind of the windy road. And as I said, GBS found me more so than I found GBS, but I’ve been lucky enough to have great experiences starting with financial background, into finance, and then into things like creative and event management all the way through managing pension plans and HR benefit plans. And it’s really been a learning experience and continues to be.
Atul:
Kathleen what are rich set of experiences across industries, across business functions? And I can tell it’s going to be very motivating for others to know that they can gain these set of experiences and make their way to such a leadership position as you have today. Can you talk a little bit about your role today and the kind of business functions that your GBS role covers today?
Kathleen:
Sure. Our global business services organization at Bose is truly a multifunctional global organization. And I’ll just give you kind of a little bit of the breadth of what’s included within our organization. So we have what we call employee and workplace services, which is really your traditional hire to retire types of transactions. In addition to all of our global property, whether it’s owned or leased management and the facility management, including things like environmental health and safety, et cetera that go with managing the facility. So really a focus on the employee, both I’ll say HR performance type of transactions help, but also the workplace and workspace for that employee experience. We also have your traditional shared service center type of work, right, where you’ve got the end to end transactional processes, data maintenance, things of that nature. And we’ve got our major hub within Europe, but then we do have what we call satellite locations, one in Mexico and two in Asia, really to be able two cover language and things of that nature.
Kathleen:
The third area that we cover as we’re going through is indirect sourcing. And I know many of your folks listening here are sourcing professionals. So all of our indirect sourcing majority professional services, technology, things of that nature are also included within our business services scope. And then finally what we call digital and data, which really consists of the IT organization as well as our data and analytics center of excellence. And that’s really about data standards, data models et cetera, to be able to support the business, whether it be supporting our products in the field, supporting marketing campaigns, supporting. So as we all know, data drives the decisions that we make as a business. And that really is, I’ll say one of the crown jewels that we have within the organization is the digital and data components.
Atul:
Kathleen, thank you for sharing that. Well, let’s move on to our next topic talking specifically about GBS and sourcing.

Atul:
So Kathleen let’s talk about the environment today. And as you think about the next six months, 12 months, what are your top priorities?
Kathleen:
I would say top priorities, within my current scope of business services, I would definitely say cyber and information security is definitely a top concern. As we see in the news, unfortunately, every day almost, it’s not a matter of will you get hacked but when you get hacked or really being able to have a secure digital environment, I would say is one of the highest level priorities that I have. And the other that I would say is really being able to keep folks safe within this time of COVID. So, as I explained, I have responsibility for the building and building safety and our facilities. So I would say that’s another thing that keeps me up at night.
Kathleen:
And then finally, maybe on a more optimistic note, in things that I’m thinking about is really being able to leverage all of the services, the data, the information that transpires, or is housed, touched if you would, within the business services’ organization and be able to harness that. To be able to provide analytics and insights so that the business can take action. So I would say those are probably the three top priorities at this point in time.
Atul:
Right. And I think this also provides insights to others in terms of how one could be helpful to you. Would I be right in assuming, Kathleen, that when you talk about cyber and some of these other issues, the worry is not just about the organization itself, but also your supply chain?
Kathleen:
Oh, absolutely. I would say cyber is a very broad topic. And it’s everything from protecting IP, protecting employee and customer information and keeping the operations running because as we know, as everybody knows, many of these ransomware attacks is they basically close you down. And so you can’t operate unless you get a key to unlock the operation. So it is a combination of operational, with loss of information, that you’re looking at when we think about cyber, for sure.
Atul:
Yeah, absolutely. And Kathleen, that’s one of the reasons I’m seeing more and more companies, when they think about cyber, they also think about what are some early other risk domains they ought to monitor, that kind of cascade into a cyber risk. Like employee health, their suppliers, financial condition, location issues, and others.
Kathleen:
Absolutely. And the way that we’re thinking about it is really from I’ll call it a resiliency management perspective. So it’s not only kind of securing the walls and reducing the blast radius, but how resilient are we? Whether it is to a cyber event or a natural disaster or some other kind of economic or pandemic type of issue, really thinking about how quickly can we get back to producing and servicing our customers ultimately.
Atul:
That’s a great point, Kathleen. In fact we’ve been talking about how it has evolved into more of a risk and resilience operation center.
Kathleen:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Atul:
So Kathleen, one of the things very clearly that we are seeing that the pace of change, the continuous sudden impacts to business environment, COVID, is a good example, while Delta variant is a following example of another big bump. How does your organization stay ahead with all these challenges that are continuously evolving?
Kathleen:
That’s not an easy question I think for anybody. And I would say, especially in this time of COVID where everybody’s remote, it can be even more challenging. And I would say with global organization specifically, you would think that we’re all on a level playing field now because we’re all remote, but there definitely is, in my opinion, something lost and not being able to get on a plane and go see how the team is doing in Shanghai or in Tokyo or in Tijuana or wherever it may be.
Kathleen:
So staying ahead of the changes, I think, requires a call it an extra level of coordination and communication. And so having really robust processes to measure ourselves on what is really the goal? How are we achieving that goal? Are we getting closer to that goal? And the two things that I would say that we use across all of our GBS function, not just for our IT organization, we use Scaled Agile, we use Lean Portfolio Management, and we also use a common framework for how we measure our OKR’s, which is maybe the newer, maybe not so new for many, but really what is the objective and the key result, which is very different from tracking key performance indicators or service levels. It really is trying to have a view of what is the business outcome? And, and we track against the business outcomes and everything that we do.
Atul:
Wonderful. Kathleen, I think one of the other things that we’re seeing quite a bit of is companies really making sure they have robust market intelligence, market scanning capability so that they have early warning of some of these challenges or some of these changes and at the same time opportunities that they are able to detect.
Kathleen:
So I would say we’re all trying to do that. There’s certainly some companies that do that a lot better than others and it’s everything in the market trends. For Bose, as a company, everything from what is the customer sentiment on what are the products that folks are looking for? How does it improve their working from home? How does it improve their ability to hear? How does it improve, as much as where are the trends going from an automation perspective? So what are the types of things that we’re seeing that can be automated? Things within customer service as an example, that we may think as GBS professionals, it’s about the real transactional, where, within Bose, at least it is a combination of automating the transactional to continue to push higher value work to individuals, but also how do we improve customer value through automation. And being able to serve up if you would information that customers need, when they need it, how they need it, in a way that is consumable. So I would say absolutely on both of those ends.
Atul:
So Kathleen, let’s stick with the conversation on automation. Share a little bit more about the benefits you’re realizing. And also what are some of the hurdles or challenges that you’re seeing with increased use of automation or application of automation?
Kathleen:
I would say we, have like many others gone down the RPA route, and so there are many things within our, I’ll call it, transactional service centers that we have now automated to be able to do close and consolidation, to be able to have a view of supplier spend, things of that nature. But the areas that we’re really focused on from an automation perspective are more in the data and analytics spaces. So really being able to automate how we, I’ll say ingest data, how those models are run in a repetitive way so that we can then provide insight to the organization. So we’re highly focused on automation within, I’ll say the digital and data space, to be able to have a single source of truth for data. Because as we all know, if you don’t have quality data, garbage in, garbage out, as they say.
Kathleen:
But really the automation in some really complex models that we’re using things like, as an example, taking Amazon reviews, that’s all obviously text verbiage and being able to ingest that, analyze it to know what are the types of things that customers may be saying about battery life or about water resistance, that’s really where a lot of the automation is happening is to be able to drive some of that analytics and insights.
Atul:
Are you seeing challenges with getting to scale? So data, of course, you have to overcome that hurdle. What about getting to scale?
Kathleen:
I think it’s a question of really what’s important to you, right? So you can, it could be what is it? Fast,cheap?
Atul:
Faster, cheaper, better.
Kathleen:
Yeah, there we go. You can only pick two. And I would say it all depends. So is scale in your view of faster, cheaper, better? I would say what we’re looking at is we’re really trying hard to be able to prioritize the highest areas of impact because if you go at it as eat the elephant whole right, or swallow the ocean, whatever analogy you’d like to use, it is very difficult. So getting to scale, at least the way that we’re moving to get to scale is, let’s prioritize the highest value impact items. Let’s get really good at that. And what we’re finding is, as we’re prioritizing the highest value impact, there are a lot of positive unintended consequences, if you would, of other areas, then being able to automate using those standard tool sets. So we’re not as much focused on everybody needs to automate everything as much as what is the highest value, because we all have limited resources, limited people, limited money. Getting to scale is less of a focus than achieving the impact.
Atul:
So Kathleen, one of the movements that we are seeing very strongly in the market, getting a lot of attention from governments, enterprises, consumers, is ESG. Can you talk about how you are thinking about it? How are you approaching it both for yourself and your supply chain, which is your suppliers and partners.
Kathleen:
At Bose, we have an ESG program, as many other companies do. And so it really is as much about environmental, which a lot of what my teams do, if you think about facility management, it’s how much waste is there in the cafeteria? And are we using plastic utensils and things of that nature? as well as on our property, having solar panels, things of that nature, there’s a lot of focus on the environmental. And of course those are things that we are absolutely doing because our customers expect that. But then from a broader sustainability and governance perspective, we are absolutely looking and focused at ESG, but it is for us, there’s a table stakes, I think for everybody, there’s things that you just need to do. And then for Bose, at least what’s aligned with our essence and values there are very specific things that we believe are important to us as a brand, for our integrity, for our customers.
Kathleen:
And maybe this is a little bit of theme of prioritization because we’ve really been honing this in prioritizing, even within the ESG framework, we have an ESG council with various representatives. There are a number of different initiatives that we’re working, but it is everything from this, I’ll say the true environmental to bigger, broader, sustainable types of things that we’re looking at and compliance with laws and regulations and where we go above and beyond because our customers expect that of us. .
Atul:
So on that note, Kathleen, what role do suppliers play in GBS?
Kathleen:
Obviously within the GBS functions, we are using suppliers to maintain the facility, to maintain our network, et cetera. The suppliers are obviously an extension to some extent of the services and the workforce that we have so there is definitely a dependency there. But given that the GBS organization is responsible for managing all of our indirect procurements there are significant supplier relationships within research and development, as an example, from a professional services perspective. And so there is, as with every company, I would say a high dependency on strategic suppliers managing that is the million dollar question, if you would, for strategic sourcing professionals, because we’re always talking about the tail and the one-offs. And I do think, especially in today’s environment, more in, I’ll call it the direct or the manufacturing space, the component shortages that we have worldwide, and it’s everything from microchips to resin. The supplier relationships are super important and being able to get commitments on what can be shipped, sent, so that we can manufacture as well as commitments from even just a resource in building software, as an example, becomes even more important where we’ve got supply shortages across the board.
Atul:
Can you share with the audience what is it that the right or good suppliers, great suppliers do that they have in common compared to maybe the ones that don’t do as well and may no longer be partners? Any advice for suppliers, how to be great partners?
Kathleen:
Wow, that’s a great question. I would say much like being a great partner internally, I think the level of communication is really important. And I think that the best suppliers that we have are those that are willing, I would say, to negotiate in the good times and the bad times, if you would. So having a strategic relationship is not just about you’re there when I need you, but I’m there when you need me. And so I would say we’ve got many of these suppliers who we worked with for a very, very long time, who we have very close relationships with from a corporate business perspective. And those are the ones really through thick and thin, as opposed to ones that are chasing the bubble, if you would. Really trying to take advantage of the bubble and believe me every everybody’s trying to chase the bubble, so I totally understand. But I would say from a supplier perspective think not just short-term, but think longer term about relationships and how we’ll work together today, tomorrow and 10 years from now.
Atul:
So Kathleen, one of the other areas of success is how well are you recruiting talent? How well are you managing human resources? And we’re seeing a tremendous amount of challenges in certain markets regarding certain resources. Can you share kind of your talent strategy and how are you making sure that you are one of the best places to work?
Kathleen:
So we’ve spent quite a bit of time talking about talent, not just as I’ll say a broader corporation, because as part of our executive team, there is a very specific focus on talent. And it is for all of these things that we talked about plus more because we’re trying to run a business, during a pandemic, with supply shortages, knowing that talent is a hot commodity, especially in specific areas. So, I would say most companies are doubling down on talent. And what we’re doing specifically is we’re looking at two areas if you would, from a talent retention and development perspective.
Kathleen:
So we are trying really hard to keep our employees engaged, keep them happy with the work that they’re doing. And from a GBS perspective, I would say, keeping folks engaged is a matter of, I’ll call it a direct line of sight to the vision of the company. The direct line of sight on how am I, if you would contributing to the customer value at the end. And sometimes that may be hard for a payroll professional or a software engineer or other. So being able to create the line of sight on here’s how you’re impacting the end customer and the part that you’re playing, I think, is one of the things that we’ve been doing and really trying to provide a lot of education on here’s how large organizations run and here’s where your part is within the overall process. And if these pieces don’t connect together…
Kathleen:
So a lot of education training, we’ve got a series where we call five things to know, and it’s everything, a five things to know on maintaining a safe workplace, to five things to know about lean and agile management, to five things to know about our consumers, et cetera.
Kathleen:
So a lot of education and keeping people up to speed or up to date on what we think are the priorities, but also from a retention perspective specifically, I’ll say within the GBS organization, but we have been doing this more holistically, really providing clarity to folks on what is your role? Because the clearer you can be on what somebody’s role is, what their contributions are, the less gray it is and am I supposed to be doing that? The more people can really dig in, they can talk about career development opportunities. And it’s not just a bit of, I’ll call it a hamster wheel, because what we’ve found is people that are on the hamster wheel there’s so much effort into just doing my day job I can’t focus on development. That’s where we lose people, and so there’s a tremendous, really a tremendous focus on giving people time out, if you would, focusing on career development conversations, ensuring that those conversations are happening.
Kathleen:
It’s a combination of broader communication and one-on-one communication. And I’m a firm believer that every single individual who is a people manager has a responsibility retention, if you would talent development, because ultimately people stay because of really the manager. They stay at the manager, the group, the people that they’re working with, and for somebody that maybe four or five levels down in the organization, me telling you it’s a great place to work won’t mean anything unless your colleagues are all demonstrating it’s a great place to work. So that’s really how we’re thinking about talent, but we are not immune for sure. The areas where it has been quite difficult to attract talent, I’ll say more than routine, is really in the digital and data spaces, more than anything else.
Atul:
So Kathleen, what do you see as the future of GBS? And particularly if you think about the journey, where does it headed?
Kathleen:
Yeah, so I would say the future of GBS is really to be [inaudible 00:00:14] focused more on what I’ll call the experience, as opposed to the process. So, I’ll give you a little bit of a view of the GBS journey at Bose, right? We started, as many other companies do, on our shared services journey with your typical AP and AR. And we really started to get a view of the end-to-end processes, which I think is a fundamental part of any GBS, right? Because if you’re not managing end-to-end, you’re always going to have problems in the backend, right? You’re always going to have problems. And really being able to look at a horizontal view is super important. So we started our journey as most companies do, and we had four basic processes if you would. We had the hire to retire process, account to report process, order to cash process, and source to pay process.
Kathleen:
So those were the four processes that we had. And even the organization was structured, I’ll say in a process prime way, where there was a process owner for each of those areas looking at design and health of the process. And then we had an operational organization that was working on executing towards the health of the process, if you would. And at the beginning of this year, we actually shifted from being a process prime model to really I’ll call it a service prime focused on the experiences. So we’ve shifted now from having process owners, if you would, as the direct reports or the leadership team of a global business services organization to really be focused on the experiences. So the way our organization is now run is we have what we call three major service portfolios. And each portfolio has a focus on who the customer is within that portfolio, and I’ll talk about that a little bit.
Kathleen:
We also have a focus on what is the best, I’ll say efficiency, agile, flexible way to be able to operate on behalf of that customer. And then our third criteria is really around data to impact and everything. So the three service portfolios we have, and I mentioned this when I talked about the scope, one is around employee and workplace services where the customer, if you would, that’s the center of that, is the employee. So everything that we need to be able to support an employee’s productivity from-
Atul:
Right.
Kathleen:
… onboarding them to our rewards and recognition program, to the physical space, to a new laptop, to I need help for any various things you name at that help support center kind of, we have that within our employee and workplace services. So even if you think about traditional IT, we’ve moved employee help from an IT, my PC doesn’t work, I need a new application. We’ve moved all of that out of our digital service into our employee service, because ultimately it’s around employee productivity. And then we’ve got an operational service portfolio that’s really focused on I’ll call it the enterprise productivity. So this is about keeping the engine running, right? So-
Atul:
Okay.
Kathleen:
… that is really where the transactional pieces come in, as well as the procurement pieces, because in order to have a really robust, operational engine and be able to support the enterprise, if you would, you need to have a really robust sourcing organization as well that is looking at ensuring we’re not buying the same tool in multiple places for some somewhat different purposes.
Atul:
Right.
Kathleen:
Really being able to connect the dots on professional service engagement. So we’ve got an operational services that is focused on the enterprise. And then we’ve got this digital and data service area. And really the focus of digital and data, the customer, if you would, is the business strategy. And so the way that we have that focused is we want our I’ll call IT, our digital group, as well as our data team to be really focused on what are the highest value impact system, cyber information security data, to execute against the Bose strategy, which is ultimately serving the customer?
Kathleen:
And so that is how we’re now structured with these three major service portfolios. And then obviously we’ve got a foundational element that we call our strategy enablement foundation. And strategy enablement is a combination I’ll say of program management, agile and lean, Six Sigma lean coaches, as well as a communications track, an education track, et cetera. So really moving away from process efficiency as the ultimate end state if you would, and moving towards what is the experience the employee has? What is the experience the customer, the end paying customer and or in our case, right, a automobile manufacturer, right? An OEM or a reseller or whatever it may be. Really getting to the experience, and are we optimizing the experience through use of technology-
Atul:
Okay.
Kathleen:
… through an end-to-end horizontal process view?
Atul:
Okay.
Kathleen:
So I think that’s the future of GBS. That’s the step that we’re taking and really starting to see some fruits of our labor and being able to integrate service delivery in a more customer experience type of way.
Atul:
Kathleen, I find that extremely intriguing because we’ve seen industries go through this process of managing from a product to experience management. Retail, for example, we’ve seen that, right? How Apple does it, they kind of focus on the experience itself. So I’m really curious to see how that goes. Do you expect your GBS professionals to behave differently, do things differently, as you’re moving from end-to-end to this experience management?
Kathleen:
Yes. And I would say what I’ve been talking to my team about, and they know this because I’ve been talking to them about this since I started here at Bose, even before we had gone into an experience view is the secret sauce, if you would, I believe in a real truly service-based organization is the integration of the services. So we can bring-
Atul:
Hmm.
Kathleen:
… more than just source to pay if you would operational efficiency. But we can bring a view of suppliers that impacts not just how are we going to maintain operations, but how can we provide different digital experiences? How can we improve customer service? And so because we’ve got these multiple functions focused on key business priorities, right? Things like, I’ll use the example of e-commerce as a business priority, really trying to make sure that we’ve got a strong, direct to consumer platform.
Atul:
Yeah.
Kathleen:
You can think about that, right? Direct to consumer, you need to engage suppliers from a content as well as a service management perspective. You need to engage technology professionals, you need to engage with data. And so we start to look then at the business strategies as a holistic group as opposed to in these silos, and we come to the business as one team that provides sourcing, digital data, operational experiences, et cetera. And so almost as a one-stop shop in many ways, that’s the value of a real GBS.
Atul:
Right.
Kathleen:
It being able to combine the silos to have integrated service value where the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.
Atul:
Right. So Kathleen, some advice for GBS professionals. Two-part question. Number one is what resources do you rely on to make yourself a better GPS leader?
Kathleen:
Oh, that’s a great question. So I would say there’s a number of places that you can continue to use and grow. Obviously, having conversations with peers and doing benchmarking is always a great source of information. So talking to others in similar roles like yours is a great place to learn. I would also say that within your organizations, you likely have experts, and I’ll use my organization as an example. I am consistently learning about things like natural language processing from my team and the data group or on work segmentation from my technology group.
Kathleen:
And I think part of what we as GBS leaders, if you would, need to be open to constant sources of learning, whether it is from others on our team that are subject matter experts, others outside our organization that are in similar roles. But I would also say really being a, I’ll call it a student of the world, because I’m sure many of you read whether it’s the Washington Post or the New York Times or whatever it is. There’s a lot of trends to stay current on, and how the world is changing is something that we’re all trying to keep up with. So I would say being as open as you can to as many areas for continued opportunity for learning, but it’s inside and outside of your organization.
Atul:
Right. Just to follow on that, Kathleen, a final question. What advice would you give to professionals who are starting out in GBS, want to be in GBS, grow their careers in GBS? What should they be doing to be more successful?
Kathleen:
Oh, I would say in order to be successful within a GBS organization, of course, I would go back to thinking about ultimately, who’s the customer that you’re serving? And to measure yourself on the way the customer measures you, if you would. I would say one of the things that I would say to continue to grow and learn and to really move up your career because what I found is if you’re solely focused on operational effectiveness and efficiency, you will not build the relationships that you need within the business where the business is then viewing you as an enabler, right? They’re viewing you more as a crutch than an enabler, to be honest with you. So I would say any professional within GBS, yes, you need to be a subject matter expert. You need to be good at what you do. But you need to have a view from your customer’s perspective on, are you making them successful? Are you making them more productive? Are you ensuring that they can be secure in the business that they do? So, that would be the advice I would give.
Atul:
Kathleen, thank you so much for making time and sharing your wisdom with us today. Thanks again.
Kathleen:
My pleasure.